Friday, December 30, 2005
Atheists and double standards
Disclaimer: I am not a staunch Hindu. I do not believe in rituals. I do not pray to God using hymns which I don’t understand. I have never asked anyone to pray with me or even just pray. I believe every religion is made by man, every religious book is thought and written by a human. Finally I do believe in God.
I have met a lot of atheists, many of whom belong to my state, Tamilnadu. My state has been one of the important grounds where atheism grew and flourished. All the Dravidian parties have atheism as their main ideal (atleast that’s what they say!). Famous and powerful reformers and political leaders right from “Perriyar” to our thatha “Karunanidhi” have blatantly said that he who believes in God is a fool. I am quite ok till this point. Since their main focus and reasoning against God is the practice of foolish rituals and practices, they do make sense. But after this point I am not able to find a common ground. Even if I assume it makes political sense, why do they only target Hinduism for this. Is it because hindus won’t throw bombs or burn the country down if anything is said against their religion? No, I am not a supporter of BJP or RSS. So, stop thinking along political lines. I heard that atheists have put up a banner in front of a temple (not sure which one, heard this long time back!) saying “You are fool to believe in God”. Not sure when they will do that in front of a mosque or a church. Coalition with muslim league is secular (both atheists and communists say this!) but when you go to the other side it is religious right. My own cousin is an upright atheist. He easily criticizes every hindu festival that is being celebrated in his house. But when it comes to his friends who are muslims or Christians - a stunning silence. Take for example the famous movie “Anbhey sivam” by Kamal Hassan. Apart from showing Nasser a staunch hindu being a bad man, they could have shown a muslim and Christian also doing bad things against him. But hell no…what you see is a Christian nun helping him when he is wounded. The lyrics, “Aathigam pesum adiyar kelam , sivame anbhagum, nathigam pesum nalavruko anbhey sivamagum”. How are believers in God are wrong, mislead and selfish people with no love, whereas all atheists are incarnation of goodness? When I think on a personal level what atheism and theism means to me or differs from my point of view, I see little difference.
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Very nicely written Arvind..I feel bad too...Never thought about the character in anbe Sivam..until now..but it is true..Maybe its because the Hindus are generally tolerant people...that the politicians take them lightly.!!
You said
All the Dravidian parties have atheism as their main ideal -
The same crooks do pujas in temples near their homes..and also in bigger temples.! Everyone knows that.!!
Its all a big show.!!
BTW - I am also like how you described yourself.!!
You said
All the Dravidian parties have atheism as their main ideal -
The same crooks do pujas in temples near their homes..and also in bigger temples.! Everyone knows that.!!
Its all a big show.!!
BTW - I am also like how you described yourself.!!
Aravind,
I am a pious hindu, at the same time conceptually have understood the arguments of atheists. Something like what u said u r.
Regarding the Anbe Sivam and what is happening in India today, i have been hearing of a Communist/Missionary nexus to completely undermine the indian culture. All these events make my understanding much stronger!!
I am a pious hindu, at the same time conceptually have understood the arguments of atheists. Something like what u said u r.
Regarding the Anbe Sivam and what is happening in India today, i have been hearing of a Communist/Missionary nexus to completely undermine the indian culture. All these events make my understanding much stronger!!
I disagree with you on two counts.
1) Hindus might not "throw bombs or burn the country" when the religion is criticized, but they definitely know how to make a nuisance of themselves.
Remember M F Hussain's paintings from 20 years ago, of Sita and Saraswati? Remember how the man had to suffer for his portrayal? A protrayal that is considered by many historians, an accurate representation of what is written in those holy books?
Or maybe we forget the regrettable Babri Masjid incident.
We took down a 500-year-old national monument, because some people believe it was built in the place a temple.
Tolerant? I'd think twice before saying that.
2) A true Hindu, is encouraged to question everything around him. Including the very basis of Hinduism. So criticism of one's own religion, is where criticism should start, IMHO.
But that's not to say that it stops there. I think there are enough Atheists out there who question the basis of Christianity and Islam. The story of Creation, has been quite publicly debunked by scientists worldwide. It's common knowledge that Jesus wasn't really born on the 25th of December, and questions abound, about the accuracy of the story of Jesus' "Second coming". If that wasn't enough, it is accepted by devout Christians that Jesus never really intended to start a new religion. He was supposed to be the "King of the Jews"!
Similarly, criticism of Islam exists. I'm not well-read enough to know the details in terms of anyone saying that the Quran was "not dictated by God", but surely you've heard about the debates about Islamic customs like polygamy, circumcision, and the lack of women's rights.
Yes, if people with Hindu parents or belonging to a predominantly Hindu society criticize Hinduism, it tends to be OK, but those criticizing other religions are called communalists. But that's true of any religion. Of any race. Of any sex. Specially when the criticism is of a minority.
And that's simply because criticism of someone who has a very different background from yours, is rarely without prejudice.
I do agree with you though, that a true atheist is someone who doesn't believe in any God.
Just my 2 cents :)
And Happy New Year to you too!
1) Hindus might not "throw bombs or burn the country" when the religion is criticized, but they definitely know how to make a nuisance of themselves.
Remember M F Hussain's paintings from 20 years ago, of Sita and Saraswati? Remember how the man had to suffer for his portrayal? A protrayal that is considered by many historians, an accurate representation of what is written in those holy books?
Or maybe we forget the regrettable Babri Masjid incident.
We took down a 500-year-old national monument, because some people believe it was built in the place a temple.
Tolerant? I'd think twice before saying that.
2) A true Hindu, is encouraged to question everything around him. Including the very basis of Hinduism. So criticism of one's own religion, is where criticism should start, IMHO.
But that's not to say that it stops there. I think there are enough Atheists out there who question the basis of Christianity and Islam. The story of Creation, has been quite publicly debunked by scientists worldwide. It's common knowledge that Jesus wasn't really born on the 25th of December, and questions abound, about the accuracy of the story of Jesus' "Second coming". If that wasn't enough, it is accepted by devout Christians that Jesus never really intended to start a new religion. He was supposed to be the "King of the Jews"!
Similarly, criticism of Islam exists. I'm not well-read enough to know the details in terms of anyone saying that the Quran was "not dictated by God", but surely you've heard about the debates about Islamic customs like polygamy, circumcision, and the lack of women's rights.
Yes, if people with Hindu parents or belonging to a predominantly Hindu society criticize Hinduism, it tends to be OK, but those criticizing other religions are called communalists. But that's true of any religion. Of any race. Of any sex. Specially when the criticism is of a minority.
And that's simply because criticism of someone who has a very different background from yours, is rarely without prejudice.
I do agree with you though, that a true atheist is someone who doesn't believe in any God.
Just my 2 cents :)
And Happy New Year to you too!
@venkat sir, merino, t.j, RJA, thanks :-)
@RJA,
Agree with you completely in an all india level and also on a world level (but definitely disagree in Tamilnadu level!). It is saddening to see extremism in hinduism too. Specifically w.r.to Babri masjid, it was deplorable. However, I think in the collective consciousnous of the hindus in the north india, they still remember the bad period during muslim rule and their symbols of attrocity and slavery lie scattered everywhere. Logically, these should not matter now so many hundred years back. But logic and reason have little place in our country politics. I m not justifying the act of babri masjid, but I think these incidents are likely to happen. But there is one point I will not give in whatever anybody says, I still believe an average hindu is several times more tolerant and accepting than any other religious person I have seen so for.
@RJA,
Agree with you completely in an all india level and also on a world level (but definitely disagree in Tamilnadu level!). It is saddening to see extremism in hinduism too. Specifically w.r.to Babri masjid, it was deplorable. However, I think in the collective consciousnous of the hindus in the north india, they still remember the bad period during muslim rule and their symbols of attrocity and slavery lie scattered everywhere. Logically, these should not matter now so many hundred years back. But logic and reason have little place in our country politics. I m not justifying the act of babri masjid, but I think these incidents are likely to happen. But there is one point I will not give in whatever anybody says, I still believe an average hindu is several times more tolerant and accepting than any other religious person I have seen so for.
Spot on, Dude. Spot on. People like Kalaignar(God knows...ooops...nobody knows...what Kalai...) wear their yellow thundu and marry a virgin to increase their life span. But, they talk of Atheism and tie up with Pinko-Missionaries to reinforce their "Secular"(Sic!) credentials.
Though, I am not a fan of the Chaddiwalas(RSS) people...seeing people like Karunanidhi and the other Hinduism Bashers in TN, I feel the Khakhi Chaddi is much better.
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Though, I am not a fan of the Chaddiwalas(RSS) people...seeing people like Karunanidhi and the other Hinduism Bashers in TN, I feel the Khakhi Chaddi is much better.
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